Home Forums BIBLE STUDY Open Discussion Lucifer = Satan?

This topic contains 6 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  Chet 7 months ago.

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  • #9628

    Chet
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    There is a figure called “Lucifer, son of the dawn” (Helel ben-Sahar) in Isaiah 14:12. Most people associate this figure with the one called “Satan” in the New Testament. Yet on multiple occasions I have heard this idea challenged by individuals who think that Isaiah 14:12 is merely applying this title to the king of Babylon.

    So some people basically say that the idea of a figure akin to Satan is not in Isaiah 14 because it is only really speaking about the king of Babylon. I disagree; I think those who claim that Helel ben-Sahar is a title for the king of Babylon are actually ignoring the clear mythological themes in the text.

  • #9647

    admin
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    I think it’s time for a comprehensive database search on all literature containing this reference. I’ll start on the COS volumes. I have pleaded the 5th on this issue since the beginning but I would love to form a valid opinion based on research.

    What is your current body logic on the matter? Any texts that influenced your opinion that we should be considering?

  • #9706

    Chet
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    Dr. Michael S. Heiser briefly explains the connection between Genesis 3, Isaiah 14, and Ezekiel 28 in a youtube video, which makes a connection between Satan and Helel ben-Sahar rather easy. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5iZmrocHDo)

    For more technical literature, see Dr. Heiser’s articles “The Mythological Provenance of Isaiah 14:12-15: A Reconsideration of the Ugaritic Material” and “The Nachash and His Seed: Some Explanatory Notes on Why the “Serpent” in Genesis 3 Wasn’t a Serpent.”

    • #9776

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      I will definitely watch this today. Thanks Chet!

  • #9711

    JSBrown303
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    Well, the only time the name “Lucifer” is found in the Bible is Isaiah 14:12 and the context of that passage shows that the prophet was calling Nebuchadnezzar that name. Now whether or not the prophet was essentially calling Nebuchadnezzar the devil or “Satan” only the Lord knows now.
    However, to apply the name to Satan with no Biblical example or inference would simply not be “rightly dividing the word of truth” (2 Timothy 2:15).

    • #9777

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      Well, the only time the name “Lucifer” is found in the Bible is Isaiah 14:12 and the context of that passage shows that the prophet was calling Nebuchadnezzar that name. Now whether or not the prophet was essentially calling Nebuchadnezzar the devil or “Satan” only the Lord knows now.
      However, to apply the name to Satan with no Biblical example or inference would simply not be “rightly dividing the word of truth” (2 Timothy 2:15).

      For the most part JS I have aligned with you on this issue. I am looking forward to Chet possibly changing my mind. I think the hard thing about Isaiah 14 is that it seems late Judaism and early Christianity mostly agreed that it was about Satan or at least Satan was indirectly correlated to the passage.

      Either way, I personally have not done a lot of research on the issue so my opinion could change any time. I will spend some time digging on this issue and see what I come up with.

  • #10083

    Chet
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    <p>On side note, Isaiah 14 may actually be a prophesy against Nineveh rather than Babylon, as has been demonstrated by Stephanie Dalley in the article titled Babylon as a Name for Other Cities Including Nineveh. See pages 25-33 in the Proceedings of the 51st Redncontre Assyriologique Internationale:<br /><br />http://oi.uchicago.edu/sites/oi.uchicago.edu/files/uploads/shared/docs/saoc62.pdf</p&gt;

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